2,039 votes
End the war on drugs.
Conservatives are about FREEDOM. It's your body and you should be allowed to put whatever you want into it so long as you are not hurting others. If we change from the police state to the freedom state we will shake the political scene to its foundations. For 150 years the country did just fine... more
fricker
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - Amsterdam unveiled plans Saturday to close brothels, sex shops and marijuana cafes in its ancient city center as part of a major effort to drive organized crime out of the tourist haven.
.
Surely I read that wrong, it said "Organized Crime." There can't possibly be organized crime there, drugs are legal....
.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081206/D94T8T200.html
ALAMAC
...the judgment of users that their ability to judge their own behavior is compromised (which is why alcohol was made illegal in the first place). But my point is that making the drug illegal only made matters worse (again, the experience with alcohol is the gold standard here). But yeah, we can leave it at that: Get the Feds out of it, let the states experiment, and may the best plan win.
ALAMAC
@fricker: You and I agree on something (!), and that is to let the states each experiment with their own solutions. Out of the various ways that will be tried will emerge the truth (which I am totally confident will be relegalization & medicalization of the problem). But you misunderstand me re. drug effects on illegal behavior: some drugs--notably alcohol--are so disturbing of (cont.)...
fricker
a constitutional compromise of allowing the states to decide without Federal intervention. If that is the limit to your intentions, then you have a shot at getting more conservatives into the libertarian mix. If CA wants pot, great, if LA wants coke, go for it; these mini laboratories can prove/disprove both our contentions.
.
You guys have better arguments than most potheads. Keep up the logic!
fricker
I disagree that effect of the drug is non related to illegal activity.
Lower price combined with legality will increase useage on par with alcohol. Tell me there is no marketing in alcohol to the youth particularly!
The effects cause disassociation with a productive lifestyle. This will cause dependency on either a socialist government (Holland) or through criminal activity.
I do ponder (contd)
ALAMAC
their habit and criminal gangs arise to satisfy the demand. Illegality increases cost, and this in turn provides incentives for the worst elements--those who do not care about law--to cash in by supplying the market. Do not confuse the effects of drugs with the effects of illegality. These are different things and must be considered as such.
ALAMAC
...associated with drug use are far better handled as medical/health problems rather than criminal ones. If you add the coercion of the State to the mix you do not reduce the medical problems; all you do is add additional problems due to the illegal market, because the price increases & this leads to an explosion of criminal activity, both because users are driven to crime to support (cont.)...
ALAMAC
@freeda: Another great article, thanks. @fricker: Actually the major motivating force behind the drugwar is racism:
http://www.drugpolicy.org/about/position/race_paper_history.cfm
But the point you are missing is this: Regardless of whether or not opium (or any other drug) was made illegal due to honorable concerns, the fact is that illegality DOES NOT WORK. The problems (cont.) ...
Freeda
fricker
Pro druggies? Pinheads? 500 economists beg to differ.At least most were able to discuss the issue like adults.Read the article below and see if it make any sense to you.Or maybe we should just continue shoveling money down a hole,and throwing free thinking adults in prison.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2008/12/03/einstein-insanity-and-the-war-on-drugs/
fricker
alamac
I believe the probs leading up to the Harrison act were civil war vets getting strung out on opium and then on heroin. Evidently it was enough of a problem that we needed to address it, and the folks went along with it. Weak argument, cuz later we went for all of FDR's socialism, but there had to be some sort of national problem that caused the cessation.
ALAMAC
@fricker: Well at least you admit that it's a dispute over facts. Good. I "trust" my statistics, and they are easy to find. Use teh Google & check for yourself. Or just read history: The US had no significant drug problems before drug prohibition, because the problems with drugs are due to the illegal market, not the drugs themselves. Frustrate the market, reap the whirlwind.
fricker
alamac
I don't trust your statistics. Pro druggies push crap stats all the time without the whole picture. You speak of Holland, that's where vandersloot is from, where his daddy is a judge and he can murder a girl and walk away free. That country has degraded to crap because of its overall liberalized permissive attitude, and that won't fly if America wants to stay capitalist and competitive.
ALAMAC
...don't want to give them the "satisfaction" of "getting their way". I cannot think of any other reason why you refuse to look at the facts. The country went nearly 150 years without drug problems without any drug laws at all; you could buy heroin and cocaine in the drugstores. Now we have a mess, and the facts show it's due to prohibition. RELEGALIZE--TRUST FREEDOM!
ALAMAC
...for tobacco. Also you seem to think that drug use will explode if they are relegalized. The experience of other countries who have tried easing drug restrictions doesn't bear this out; drug use in Holland, for instance, is much lower among youth and the general public than here, and crime associated with drug use is MUCH lower. I fear that you simply hate some people and (cont.)...
ALAMAC
@fricker: No, the Mafia didn't leave totally, tho many of the alcohol gangs did dissolve and it was much smaller--UNTIL the scam of drug prohibition was introduced, whereupon it started growing again. And you place too much faith in "marketing" to cause the growth of drug use. There is a simple solution for this: Restrict marketing for dangerous substances, just like we presently do (cont.)...
fricker
almanac
You can't get fried out and become a nonproductive member of society with underage prostitutes, and you just wait. The more you cowards yield to evil, the more evil is built up and enboldened.
.
Legalization = marketing
marketing = growth
growth = massive health/responsibility degradation
.
Oh, and the mafia just left america, right? They didn't just shift to another crime to push?
ALAMAC
@fricker: You misunderstand history & economics. There is little demand for "4-year-old sex slaves". There is GREAT demand for drugs. The illegal gangs you are so terrified of were created by the illegal market (like the domestic Mafia was created by alcohol prohibition). Eliminate the illegal market (by relegalization) & you will eliminate the illegal gangs, QED. TRUST FREEDOM--RELEGALIZE!
fricker
Trust me .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. No.
kathleenharris
just think how much more pleasant fricker would be on drugs!
fricker
You pinheads think that Tijuana will become a tropical resort when we legalize drugs? You think these punks will go work at the mall and become priests??
.
They will start running 4 year old sex slaves, then you you'll have to start writing blogs about legalizing that too!
.
Your cowardice will never end, and conceding to evil only begets more evil!